The Threshing Floor Radio Show-April 10, 2011-Randy Maugans
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” – Genesis 1:26
It may be the most controversial show in the history of Threshing Floor…it may disturb the precepts of religious thought that have dominated man-made religion for 2,000 years. It may be theory, or it may be another leg of the conspiracy to “hide” the truth about the faith of those who follow Yeshua.
We need to KNOW Whom this Godhead is, “in spirit and in truth”…we need to get personal with Them…and, oh, yes…when you look carefully there is a “Them.” The theology of the Trinity is often challenged, even in established Christian sects…WHY?
Is it because with every layer of deception, “they” had to cover their tracks carefully; that “they” distorted the scriptures with man-made doctrines and linguistic twists; “they” installed a male-dominated theology that paved the way for endless wars, dominance of women and “lesser” cultures, the suppression of the Jewish people and their writings, and a “homosexual”/narcissistic theology that had no balance in the feminine aspect of the original creation?
“And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.” -Genesis 2:18
By the end of this study, YOU may evaluate for yourself the evidence of the nature of the Godhead, based on historical data, honest linguistic analysis, consistent application of exegesis, and the plain writings in your Bibles. This does not change who God is…He is unchangable…but it may free you to worship and reverence your creation…from a view that “they” wish to keep hidden.
The Person of the Holy Spirit – PDF Transcript/Study Notes
Music:
“I Need To Know” – Kim Hill
“This Fragile Vessel” – Máire Brennan/Joanne Hogg/Margaret Becker
Entries (RSS)
Randy, what you mentioned are not the only gender neutral locations in the scriptures. In the book of Daniel, & I’ve noted these locations, which I have indicated within brackets.
Dan.2:31-35; Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. This image’s head was of fine gold, his [its/her] breast and his [its/her] arms of silver, his [its/her] belly and his [its/her] thighs of brass, His [its/her] legs of iron, his [its/her] feet part of iron and part of clay. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his [its/her] feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
This dream, I believe led Nebuchadnezzar to built an image of her to worship:
Dan 3:1; Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it [her] up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.
In short, I think this is the first statue of what would later be, the Virgin Mary. Look at all the false teachings that came out of Babylon that the church has adopted.
Excellent show Randy. The Spirit is speaking in these last days wanting us to know the fullness of the truth…..
Galatians 3:28 may apply here…
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
The Father, the Son and the Spirit….these three are ONE with the masculine, and feminine aspects to the Godhead’s true nature…
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” – Genesis 1:26″
Thanx for confirming in such a methodical way something I have latently “known” but could never explain the way you did in the show.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is BORN of the Spirit is spirit.
Born: G1080
??????
genna?
ghen-nah’-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the FATHER,BUT BY EXTENSION OF THE MOTHER); figuratively to regenerate: – bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.
Imagine this as a Sunday service at your local Calvary! Awesome information backed up by scripture. Hope you don’t get the godess accusation because it would be totally off base. Listen to the show a couple times, it’s well worth it.
Your documentation is sound, and I have never been that attached to a masculine gender for the Holy Spirit. I suppose my reticence from accepting a feminine HS wholesale stems from an aversion to anthropomorphizing the Godhead or any person of it, as the Baal worshippers did with their gods, and as all religions of men must do. My view is that every person of the Godhead is by nature genderless, but may adopt gender roles as necessary to fulfill the desired purpose.
My understanding is that gender appears in the creation to illustrate that regeneration is the result of consummation. Man is separated from God and has to be reconciled. Bride of Christ and all that. More specifically, the seed metaphor, central to the concept of regeneration/reproduction, growth and maturity, is the key to the mystery of God. It operates in the spiritual realm, and a gender metaphor is necessary to support the seed metaphor. The creation, unidirectional transmission and reception of the seed (which is a message) requires a gender metaphor to operate. The concept of Time is also unidirectional, and may also require a gender metaphor, but I digress.
I will go even farther and suggest that gender separation was caused by sin itself, which I think we agree arose in the spirit realm before the creation was made. The first four days of the creation week were all about dividing, and the purpose of the Tribulation is to divide the Church. Unity cannot be fulfilled until sin is exterminated, and at that time the need for gender will have run it’s course, just as the need to maintain a physical bloodline ran it’s course when Jesus was born.
The fact that the persons of the Godhead do manifest gender roles doesn’t mean that the Holy Spirit IS feminine, or that the Father IS masculine (in a Kantian sense), but I can see how it would be necessary for the triune God to use gender metaphors and adopt gender within Himself to accomplish His purposes. Perhaps a distinction too fine to be important for most purposes, but I think it needs to be made.
Biological gender is a limiting factor, not an empowering one, and is counterintuitive to the limitless omnipresent Spirit. I see God as being beyond gender, and as the creator of gender, He would need to be to be above that which He created, and therefore in no wise subordinate to it. If the Holy Spirit manifests as feminine, it’s not because She is gender limited and has no choice, it’s because She can get the job done that way.
There was, though, at least one time when the Holy Spirit manifested as male:
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Regards,
Steve
Steve-
I appreciate your openness on the subject, but a few more points to illustrate why the concept of the feminine (NOT female) is part of the divine pattern, and not anthropomorphism. I am not talking about biological gender, I am stating something closer to cosmological physics: at the basic level of the atom there are protons and neutrons; the operation of energy requires polarity as a fundamental of creation.
Creator has so chosen to reveal Itself as a masculine-feminine entity to the created in the scriptures, and the creation in His image, as per Genesis 1:27:
” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
The decision to create in “anthropomorphic” similitude was Creator’s, not man’s. Inasmuch as this earliest scripture predates the “fall”, gender is not a product of the “fall”, but a pattern of the creation after its Creator, the Elohim. The gender is a biological expression of the higher pattern of energy assumed by the Creator. Man, at this point was not separated from the Creator…the hermaphroditic creation was never part of God’s pattern.
The creation is all about separation of elements….dividing light from darkness, separating waters from land, evening from morning…this is the intelligent design which is the hallmark of Creator…the scriptures say “it is good.” I can’t say I see the “Church” in any of this…the “tribulation” is simply the result of rebellion after the type of Satan, who is the god of Chaos…let’s not confuse issues on that, Steve.
What I see in the comments from Steve and John are attempts to argue from linguistics, and I purposely defused that argument by referring back to the clear indications in scripture which argue explicitly toward a Godhead comprised of the masculine and feminine. The argument, then, is not with my assertions, but with scripture…I would be happy to go that route, but you will wind up dissembling scripture in the process!
Moreover, I am not asserting “biological” gender, I am stating principles of spiritual typology…the divine patterns of intelligent creation from the primordial “soup”, which is an energetic pattern. There is an entire cosmology beyond the texts of the scriptures which point to this in both the macro universe and the sub-atomic…it is differentiation of energy polarities.
The Creator’s work in energy differentiation is not the work of some “fall”, but the very act of creation as an outworking emanating from the Godhead. Genesis simply states, in terms that could be grasped by humans, a far-reaching work of design, of which part is called “evil”…matter/anti-matter, the entropy and chaos vs. the divine organized creation. All states of energy require positive and negative forces…creation is an energetic design.
Steve, Matthew 1:18 does not picture the Holy Spirit (called Ghost by the KJV translators) as “male”, in fact the “child of the Holy Spirit” here is amplified by Luke 1:35-” And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
Notice the TWO figures of the Deity present in the Divine Conception: the Holy Spirit (feminine) possesses her, then the power of the Supreme God (clearly masculine) overtakes her…language that speaks of a consummation. Again, the language of scripture is presented to give us a picture of something quite supernatural.
I would argue that the representation of the Godhead as masculine and feminine is extremely empowering…that it glorifies the Creator’s intentions to picture humankind as a divine part of Them (Elohim), and not some laboratory experiment. IF Genesis 1 pictures the creation of human as divine, and in a pattern of the Creator…WHY does religion argue against such? Why does religion…”Christianity”…deny a feminine expression of the Deity?
Could it be that, as I alluded in the show, the male hierarchal structures of the early chuch purposely hid the identity of the Spirit to maintain their power structures over the centuries? This again goes to my contentions that, like it or not, your Bibles are altered. You have been lied to, and deceived.
Why is it that while many of you saw the deceptions of the religious structures, you still maintain that a written book…the “Holy Bible”…is PERFECT? It is overwhelmingly apparent to me, and others, that the scriptures were added to, deleted from, and changed to present a distorted view of the God of Creation…come out of the ether! GOD is perfect, His Word is perfect, but His Word is revealed and cannot be hidden…His Word is divine, inspired, and exists within the creation….”Biblical Christianity” is NOT Biblical.
I understand the anger, the shock, but it’s time to grow up…we do not worship a book. We seek God, who is Truth, and God is revealed BY His Spirit, not the written words of man…use scriptures to find Truth, do not honor them AS truth.
Randy, I was not arguing from linguistics. I was complementing your show. I believe the others who posted after me understood where I was coming from. I was showing, there are other gender neutral locations in the scriptures, that’s all. In my illustration I brought out what I believe is a false illustration that has been portrayed by everyone, and that is by presenting the image, in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, as the king himself. My idea was to illustrate that it may have been the same image that king Nebuchadnezzar set up in the plain of Dura. I further believe that this image was of a human woman to be worshiped, but, not the Holy Spirit. The two are separate and distinct. The Babylonian religion has been incorporated into the Catholic Church, but, the rest of the churches have accepted their infectious influences also.
Everything that I’ve been taught in church I now have a habit to examine and question. An example is what we have learned about the the Holy Spirit as being a male personality. It does not trouble me that the Holy Spirit is feminine. How you explained it does make sense, and this is new for me. Just as you highlighted that we need, not the faith in Christ, but, “the faith of Christ,” and how that is imputed unto us, as followers of Jesus.
Briefly, I am not a KJV only follower for three reasons.
One, is the obvious mistakes that are in the texts. Such as in Revelation 4:3 where it mentions “a sardine stone;” whatever that is. Another example is at Acts 24:5, where Paul is described as “a pestilent fellow.” This is more correctly rendered as “a public menace.”
Second, I believe in the manuscripts (the common manuscripts or the Textus Receptus) that are the basis for the KJV are the most reliable. The two manuscripts behind the New Age Bibles are corrupt. Yet, the KJV is of little value in Spain, Japan, or Uganda, where English is not spoken. We have to be real in recognizing the best preserved Bible in any country is one in the peoples language, and it won’t always be KJV.
Finally, the New Testament, at its earliest, was canonized after John penned Revelation. The earliest book of the Bible was Mark and was completed about A.D. 57; a good 25 years after Christ’s Ascension. Before Mark, the Gospel was passed around in oral form, only written down when the apostles saw that later generations needed a written record. Still, many were converted without any books. What mattered was that, whether it be oral or written, that the truth be taught. When we study to show ourselves approved, that is with the knowledge that more that the Bible is needed. Break oped a dictionary, a concordance, and other study helps. I desire to learn the truth and pass it on to others.
So, I just wanted to let you know that I’m not disputing your teachings.
The Holy Spirit is an Essence of God.. not a person. Remember Lucy in the sky?hmm. She’s a comin. Don’t be deceived.
Blessings,
Linda
Where do you find the Holy Spirit is an “essence” … is an essence grieved? Can you lie to an essence? Is an essence a “helper”…I was very clear about what I said and why on the show. You may disagree…but I presented the case.
“Lucy In The Sky” is James Lloyd’s schtick not mine…and how can Satan be a person and not an essence? Trying to get people to re-think
Randy, thanks for your transparency. I see now you were not talking about anthropomorphism. I’ll give this a re-think from the standpoint of, well, not really sure what to call it. Hmm. I think I can see it in my head but there are no words for it. Very strange.
I guess if we use terms defined by religionists, or scientists, or new-agers, and we study the true God and find concepts that cannot be explained by the terms we know, then it’s like Paul referred to as ‘unspeakable’. Makes it hard to communicate!
Thanks again for being patient.
Regards,
Steve
I understand that I presented a difficult thing in this…I wrestled with this for months, and really did not want to put it out. In the end, it is what I concluded was being shown to me. I am not going to the “goddess” teaching or worship…do not wish to invoke “Holy Mother”…I think this was better understood in the centuries before the established church came in, and it seems the ancients also grasped this. It may explain the goddess deities, “queen of heaven”, Ashteroth…all of which were paganized idolatry.
I wanted to present the balance of the masculine/feminine energies in the creation and how we could have a Heavenly Father…but no Mother, IF God (Elohim) created man in It’s image. I prayed and prayed about it, and then I got more data on the subject…more than I put in the show.
I fully expected to get flamed for doing this study…it seems most have been more patient than I foresaw. WHY this is important will become more apparent in the months to come, I think. Also, the other side of anthropmorphism is to make the Godhead into something so abstract we lose the connection between us and them. Jesus came as a man to represent the Father to us and lead us back to Him, as the Creator of All.
Wisdom, in Proverbs, is carefully presented as YAHVEH’s companion…a Helper. She is contasted to the haughty, evil, iniquitous harlot…Jezebel…in Proverbs 7. For both male and female, this is instructive on a spiritual level. As Linda (above post) stated, “Lucy” (Queen of Heaven, Ishtar/Asteroth) may be presented to us as a deception. The only way this deception works is IF we conceive a female as Deity. I see Wisdom…the Holy Spirit a co-worker with YAVEH and Christ, but in the most beautiful submission to the Father, and in deference to the Son.
I hope all that clarifies the matter more. I appreciate the patience and striving of those who posted or wrote…I understand the difficulty.
thump
very well done study, the possibilities of the feminite quality Holy Spirit from proverbs, thomas and genesis,,thanks for not making it feminism, and ty for mentioning some historical kabala jewish influences here in it……….” worship in spirit and truth” i would think the focus would not be on gender male or female,,,,and there is neither jew nor greek female or male mentioned in a verse also in gal 3, but all is one……all to look at together in perspective,,,,,,I liked also the comment above on using the search of the word in spirit but also verse, dictionary, concordance usage….study self approved..yes…..ok i see you dont believe in the authenticity of the word cause of translations, your seeking in spirit,,and knowing,,,,that where it can get edgy, you Believe Christ but not the biblical word in your journey. I dont follow you into that road for certain debatable theory….but were trying to understand the Holy Spirit for now
Denise-
I appreciate the difficulty you and other have in my contentions about the Bible being altered…I get that totally. I would ask you this: if you can recognize that history is written by the victors of conflict, WHOM do you think compiled the Bible? Authentic 1st century Christianity was hunted and killed by the bloody Caesars until the time that Constantine had his “vision” of the cross: “With this sign you shall conquer”…then Rome absorbed the “church”, became the “church”, hunted down the remaining Jews and expunged their culture in hatred.
Even as the “heresy hunters” expunged the books that did not present a government-friendly Christianity…adding little items like Romans 13…and removing the esoteric words of Yeshua…HOW can a book compiled by “them” be an “authority” for spirit-led believers?
So, what we have to do is use wisdom…take the Bible for what it is, and “spit out the bones.” So-called “Biblical Christianity” is not “biblical”…a contrivance of the protestant/Calvinist wing to assert “higher authority” through a codex. Truth is self-assertive…the WORD of God is revealed…worship a book or worship the LORD, but don’t confuse issues. I will USE the Bible as I am led. I will also discard those things which have the fingerprints of man on them.
The issue is NOT the “authenticity” of the translations—it is what was taken out, and what was added to the “authorized” books to maintain empire. The same people who say they have come out of the churches need to go the next step, and reject the distortions of man’s teachings based on these books…and stop their bloody legalisms. The WORD of God is alive…the truth is within you.
For your consideration:
Scriptures describing “wisdom” (the feminine) the Holy Spirit “of” God, being “brought forth”:
Pro 8:24 When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his] delight, rejoicing always before him;
Compare this to the created “woman” (the feminine) being “brought forth” “out” of the man:
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
I think there are some clues here…this is a “mystery” Paul says, where the “two shall become one”
Perhaps the ‘feminine” person of the Holy Spirit was “brought forth” out of the essence of the being of God the Father (masculine)
And the male and female human creations who were created by “them” are a divine reflection of the heavenly union (oneness) between the Father and the Holy Spirit……..if that makes sense.
To me, it is a perfect “complement” of aspects of the divine nature that makes up the godhead.
going on our own truths,,,,that can be very edgy lol…
not believing in his word….well that too can lead one to many places….i wondering if you still believe Christ is God,,that would be the next
Denise-
I guess I have to ask: why listen? Go somewhere else that is comfortable for you…BUT, like a lot of other judgmental people, you ASSUME…or PRESUME as to what is God’s WORD…because I can’t find anywhere that scripture says “scripture IS the WORD of God…got any verses for me (since that is what a Biblical literalist requires.) Funny, how whenever I encounter this argument I get NOTHING from this WORD from people..just more opinions. So step up here…show me!
How was this show “my (our)own truths”…I actually used scripture to prove some thing that NO ONE else teaches…like religion. If you disagree…then show me WHY based on something other than “your” own understanding…and please…limit your comments…no one wants to read all your random thoughts here.